another entrench and defend game

AU_sims (R-Spanish) vs. Insert (R-Aztec) @ Outback

Insert does an ancient raid, doesn't do much damage but slows us both down. I start with diamonds and an awesome defensive position so I decide to boom, even though he is Aztec. I try for a gunpowder attack but mess up by not defending my capital well, so I am forced to retreat to defend the giant Aztec army raid. Past that, my next thinking is to try to beat Insert to VI and use the instant/free commandos to my advantage. There are three keys that help me get there 1) I have Republic with diamonds, so once I finally get my econ capped it's bigger 2) I kill his catapult in V, allowing me to finish a key fort, and 3) In the late V battle, my entrenched troops force him to retreat and let me safely go VI. Had I not entrenched, I would have lost much more troops, and would not have been able to counterattack as effectively in VI. Note here that because of the chokepoints, entrench effectively bought me two minutes of time--and those two minutes are what allowed me to go VI safely.

I remembered it once today, helped a great deal, like you say, buys time.

Wow gg.

So does Insert still play??

I've seen him on a few times in the past week as Insert and Luke.

Yeah, I remember watching that game.... It was a pretty close game, fun to watch. I have a bit of criticism, though....

First, I don't understand why you did a com2 in ancient. You had diamonds, giving you a 110 commerce limit. I think diamonds should be a reason [ic0636b7206]not[/ic0636b7206] to research further commerce, because it raises your commerce limit in the same way commerce research does. If you do com2 with diamonds, it's like reasearching commerce up to level 2.2 (if that makes sense) rather than level 2 like you normally do when booming in ancient.

Then there's the battle that won you the game.... You entrenched your army behind your city and a bit to the side, and put your HC next to it, a bit further to the side. If I were in Insert's position, there are a number of things I might have tried

-Take my army around the west side of your city to capture it, while still staying out of range of your army, then razing whatever I could.
-Seige your entrenched infantry while staying out of range. (If I'm playing defensive, I usually make upgraded artillery myself which I put in front of an entrenched army and use to attack enemy artillery.)
-Bring all my HI far east, and come up on your HC still easy of them, so that your entrenched infantry would be out of range. Sort of "flanking" your HC.

Is there something (some things, rather) that I'm missing?

i beat insert... lakota on lakota 1v1..
and after that ... my turks against his aztic.. but it was long time ago!

gee

Well I don't have RoN installed anymore so I will just do this from memory...

[quote26359a203b="Diveloperz"]First, I don't understand why you did a com2 in ancient. You had diamonds, giving you a 110 commerce limit. I think diamonds should be a reason [i26359a203b]not[/i26359a203b] to research further commerce, because it raises your commerce limit in the same way commerce research does. If you do com2 with diamonds, it's like reasearching commerce up to level 2.2 (if that makes sense) rather than level 2 like you normally do when booming in ancient.[/quote26359a203b]

I researched com2 because I had diamonds and I got ancient raided--I had something like 400 wealth, so taking com2 only slows down my classic by 30 secs (I can buy food with the wealth to go classic right after com2 is finished). I trade 30 secs slower to classic for 1 more com tech (and slightly more econ) and not having to gather 126 knowledge. Finally, I had a great defensive position at my 2nd city to buy me time. Seems like a good or at least even exchange to me. In fact, insert goes 1/1/1/1 for early raid in classic and as I can recall he did almost no damage despite my com2.

Also, com2 in ancient makes medieval jump much easier, and I wanted a faster medieval vs. an Aztec (for large cities to discourage an all-out attack). Reason being you can apply that 126 knowledge towards medieval research rather than com2. And there's no way you can gather 126 knowledge in 30 seconds in classic. You might gather 20 knowledge in those 30 seconds given normal rares. So I have a 100 knowledge boost that can go towards III. Of course once I got there I screwed up and it almost cost me the game. But that's a different story.

In short, if I can get away with it, I almost always do com2 on water maps (of course you have to use your brain, you might not want to do it vs Mongols for example).

[quote26359a203b]Then there's the battle that won you the game.... You entrenched your army behind your city and a bit to the side, and put your HC next to it, a bit further to the side. If I were in Insert's position, there are a number of things I might have tried

-Take my army around the west side of your city to capture it, while still staying out of range of your army, then razing whatever I could.[/quote26359a203b]

Might work, depends on whether the game gives him the city. Both of our armies were pretty big. I should have entrenched closer though. As I remember I was in a bit of a hurry to get my guys entrenched. In general, though, I think insert got that irresistable temptation to attack that you always have when you're Aztec and you have a big army (so you can gather plunder).

[quote26359a203b]
-Seige your entrenched infantry while staying out of range. (If I'm playing defensive, I usually make upgraded artillery myself which I put in front of an entrenched army and use to attack enemy artillery.)[/quote26359a203b]

Waste of time, sieging doesn't do crap (surprisingly). Bird and I tested it once, he sieged my 20 minuteman entrenched formation with 4 cannons and 3 minutes later he was still sieging it. He finally just killed the villies with tanks.

[quote26359a203b]-Bring all my HI far east, and come up on your HC still easy of them, so that your entrenched infantry would be out of range. Sort of "flanking" your HC.[/quote26359a203b]

There's no way you can ever flank fast cavalry with slow HIs, unless your opponent is a moron who doesn't know how to move cavalry. And besides there was a huge mountain in the way. I never entrench HCs (I don't think you can even do so if you try), and in fact one of the biggest advantages of entrenching is it lets you focus all your attention on microing cavalry, which stand to benefit the most of all military units from your constant attention.

Hm, I see. I also went by memory, not because I don't have RoN working but because I don't want to dig out the rec. lol I don't remember you doing anything with your HC, I thought they just stood to the side while your infantry did da killing and he sorta attacked both, but maybe I was wrong (not a big surprise, is it?). I've taken out halves of armies (when playing noobs, that is) by seiging them, but maybe entrenching makes them impossible for artillery to hit...? I'll have to test that some time....

Well I keep my cavalry out of the way in Enlightenment until I see that most HIs are gone. Otherwise they get easily mowed down by fusiliers. If you just charge all your cavalry in you're wasting them. As it was I waited until I had reduced him somewhat and then charged in. In V especially it's important to not charge your cavalry immediately if the opponent has a lot of HIs (although I do it a lot cuz I'm lazy, I will bother to micro if I think it's important, like in this case). In GP it is good to charge more cavalry (although sometimes you may have to keep some back for defense) since HIs are shit slow and have no range, and your knights easily take out arquebusiers.

I know -- I'm not a n00b! o I mean, I'm a noob, but I'm not a noob. ? If you know what I mean....

sims why did u uninstall tnp?? ;(

I need to pwn at work and school for now dance

damn, miss ya already

[quote877a1ae2d0="KIWI_Rootfifth"]damn, miss ya already[/quote877a1ae2d0]

Hmm any anal goin on here?

i wish ;(

[quotee9691a2809="AU_sims"]I need to pwn at work and school for now dance[/quotee9691a2809]
Bummer. Can't u balance a little RoN with School?

Aye. GL HF Sims....

[quotebe911ac202="KBS_Gladiator"][quotebe911ac202="AU_sims"]I need to pwn at work and school for now dance[/quotebe911ac202]
Bummer. Can't u balance a little RoN with School?[/quotebe911ac202]

Maybe but I am playing more piano now and am also working full-time for the moment (no classes just research). I used to play it 2 hours a day (and I restarted that routine a few weeks ago). I find it hard to maintain decency in more than one leisure activity at once. After 2500 or so RoN games, that's enough for a bit of a break. dance

i wish i could play an instrument piano is cool. I bet you can use that to get laid a whole bunch....not that that matters any more for me, i just think it a good call...like playin the guitar....women love that shit....if you are not gay....

Thanks for the tips Bongs! ;)

i heard this or read it or something,but i don't think cannons can hurt entrenched troops or it's like 66% reduced splash damage or something.

Does entrench help at all if your opponent goes to the flank? i.e. do you still get the defensive bonus (w/ him getting the flank bonus?)

It's only frontal armor, so you get no benefit vs a flank (which is why it's best to do it at a chokepoint). However, I think your troops can still turn and stay entrenched if they're on stand ground.

Hmm, there a hotkey for turning them? Cause when I move 'em they come out of entrenchment.

I just keep them in stand ground. Once they get attacked they'll pivot (I think).

Yes they tend to turn a little to protect flank. I find the reinforcements are good just a wee bit back of flank to flank any flankers....

Y'know, normally few stragglers or extras coming in missed the entrench. And cav for minding flank too.

I think where entrench really rocks is in V and beyond cause HI are ranged. Trying to get around an age VI army is a pain in the ass... you basically end up losing 1/3 of your force getting them into a spot where they can do some damage.

Note that an entrenched army under seige will suffer splash damage. It isn't much but you can't let the other guy do it forever. A good defence should include upgraded artillery, that way the other guy has to either run into your entrenched army or get a large mass of artillery to counter yours.

[quotef5c4ed4945="AU_BonGs"]i wish i could play an instrument piano is cool. I bet you can use that to get laid a whole bunch....not that that matters any more for me, i just think it a good call...like playin the guitar....women love that shit....if you are not gay....[/quotef5c4ed4945]

women love guitar. 8)

you mean men? fag

GG

GG